WiAOC 2009 - The Learning Curve for Architectural Education in Virtual Worlds

WiAOC 2009
The Learning Curve for Architectural Education in Virtual Worlds
 blending language learning, architecture, virtual  worlds, technologies and the pros and cons
May 22, 2009

Moira Hunter (RL) / Busy Link (SL) 
Marlene Brooks (RL)/Zana Kohime (SL)
 Jon Brouchoud (RL)/Keystone Bouchard (SL)


Partial Chat Log Below

[11:30]  Telli Meredith: doubtful from my understanding.
[11:31]  Maison Artaud-Thirard whispers: First page.
[11:31]  sedai Kaligawa: are there other programs witha similar build interface "primitive shapes" with bounding boxes and rotation spheres?
[11:33]  Busy Link: concepts behind scripting
[11:34]  SusNy Foss: Iota Ultsch speaking
[11:34]  Maison Artaud-Thirard whispers: Last page.
[11:34]  Daffodil Fargis: Building in SL is quite a difficult skill to learn for most people I know. How long did it take students to learn so they were able to build a shipyard and how did they learn these skills?
[11:34]  Keystone Bouchard: wow, the sim is full
[11:34]  Telli Meredith: yes I couldn't get in for some time
[11:35]  SusNy Foss: JudyArx speaking: enables students basic skills w 3d tools
[11:35]  Anciana Twine: Must run. Thanks for sharing.
[11:35]  Dakota Dreamscape: I'm going to leave--so someone else can get in.
[11:36]  SusNy Foss: Busy invites students to share their own experiences
[11:36]  Keystone Bouchard: i bumped up the limit
[11:36]  Busy Link: go ahead
[11:36]  Keystone Bouchard: so its no longer a problem
[11:36]  Alayna Hutson: :)
[11:36]  Busy Link: Skitz prims (spelling correct I hope)
[11:36]  Alayna Hutson: Skidz Primz
[11:36]  SusNy Foss: Zana - we don'ty use basic bulding blocks and also premade avatars
[11:37]  Busy Link: thanks Alayna
[11:37]  SusNy Foss: so that hey already have inventory built
[11:37]  SusNy Foss: SL using basic building tools is not accurate enough for architecture students
[11:38]  SusNy Foss: Alayna: problem with buiding window - with Skidz prims you get more accuracy
[11:38]  SusNy Foss: hopeing that you get alignment, no overlaps etc
[11:38]  Iota Ultsch: How are the 7 decimal places possible programmatically?
[11:38]  SusNy Foss: avoid the most annoying problems with building in SL
[11:38]  Kali Idziak is Offline
[11:38]  Profesora Farigoule: this was one constant complaint from my students - basic building tools were not as accurate as they were accustomed to working with say in AutoCAD
[11:38]  SusNy Foss: can make huge difference!
[11:39]  JudyArx Scribe: and if we could get a builder with timber to work like that
[11:39]  SusNy Foss: Zana - when we go to memorial we will get landmark to Skidz tool
[11:39]  Iota Ultsch: what kind of accuracy warrants that kind of accuracy within a game environment?
[11:39]  Ahmed Freenote: i'm interested in the conceptual part. why SL? are students building representations of real buildings? or virtually building for SL as end goal?
[11:39]  Iota Ultsch: what kind of building*
[11:39]  Kvasir Olbracht: i hope we are not considering doing working drawings in SL
[11:39]  Profesora Farigoule: @Kvasir - lmao
[11:40]  SusNy Foss: Zana: Scalability becomes a big issue
[11:40]  Iota Ultsch: sure, but a built work in rl is a lot more innacurate
[11:40]  Kvasir Olbracht: ;-)
[11:40]  Alayna Hutson: 7 decimal places was actually programmed into Second Life.... they're accessible via scripts and via modifying the client :)
[11:40]  SusNy Foss: Judy: cognitive skills, moving around
[11:40]  SusNy Foss: building little boxes
[11:41]  sedai Kaligawa: I use SL as a conceptual expression, to demonstrate apoximate spatial functions and relations as well as textures
[11:41]  Profesora Farigoule: I found conceptual learning and Second Life building a great match
[11:41]  SusNy Foss is Offline
[11:41]  Alayna Hutson: Iota: You'd actually be surprised how often you encounter gaps and overlaps just working with the three decimals. We've had people that say, "No, I'm okay doing things by hand." They get to building, then come back to us and say... "I see where you're coming from now..."
[11:41]  Busy Link: lol
[11:42]  Iota Ultsch: but can we talk about the education...rl/sl generating architectural concepts instead of turning it into an advertorial? [sorry, just my thoughts at 5am]
[11:42]  Ahmed Freenote: and the assumption is: our cognitive skills are same in real life and SL?
[11:42]  Kvasir Olbracht: i wouldnt asume that...
[11:42]  Iota Ultsch: thank you
[11:43]  Iota Ultsch: absolutely
[11:43]  Keystone Bouchard: yeah, we couldn't have a meeting like this in SketchUp or AutoCAD
[11:43]  Profesora Farigoule: or have over 100 people visit my students final project :)
[11:43]  Ternemetal Effingham: It is hard to get people to physically come to our presentations, getting them into SL is easir.
[11:44]  Zana Kohime: Good for you :) That is great.
[11:44]  Kvasir Olbracht: neither could you find cool sunglasses or hair in Autocad...
[11:44]  JudyArx Scribe: Go that Project
[11:44]  em Oe: I teach second life as a design/build approach to conceptual building, and suggest this is second life's best asset
[11:44]  Iota Ultsch: what I'd like to see is [time permitting] architecture students formally presenting their [our] work to be critiqued by architects in SL
[11:44]  Kvasir Olbracht: probably just as well though..... some of my operators would then get absulutly nothing done.
[11:45]  JudyArx Scribe: Lota are you busy on Tuesday ....:)
[11:45]  Iota Ultsch: it is an international forum...therefore supremely beneficial
[11:45]  Iota Ultsch: it's iota
[11:45]  Idesine Habilis: I would like to see SL become a LEEDS lab
[11:45]  Iota Ultsch: lectures ...yikes!
[11:45]  Eurominuteman Jameson: do you have a workshop size version
[11:45]  Ahmed Freenote: anyone had building for SL, for vitual users, as final goal?
[11:45]  JudyArx Scribe: sorry iota
[11:45]  Idesine Habilis: I would like to see SL become a LEEDS lab
[11:45]  Iota Ultsch: lectures ...yikes!
[11:45]  Eurominuteman Jameson: do you have a workshop size version
[11:45]  Ahmed Freenote: anyone had building for SL, for vitual users, as final goal?
[11:45]  JudyArx Scribe: sorry iota
[11:45]  Iota Ultsch: np x
[11:45]  em Oe: a more immediate and cost effective practice of students ability to work collaboratively
[11:46]  Busy Link: Like the quotes I mentioned at the beginning ;-)
[11:46]  Iota Ultsch: awww...clearly they have rocks in their head JudyArx
[11:47]  sedai Kaligawa: Yuuuuuuuus! i build for virtual users ^^
[11:47]  Keystone Bouchard: that is disheartening indeed
[11:47]  cyber Placebo: was it your first courses?
[11:47]  Eurominuteman Jameson: do you have a workshop size version in planning
[11:47]  Chip Poutine: yes because student projects are always very grounded.
[11:47]  cyber Placebo: Judy?
[11:47]  Keystone Bouchard: lol
[11:47]  Daffodil Fargis: Well, isn't it normal that some don't like SL/Virtual Worlds?
[11:47]  Alayna Hutson: I can understand that standpoint coming from students. If you think about it, most people would consider Second Life a game.
[11:47]  cyber Placebo: I find that that second or third time
[11:47]  cyber Placebo: is always taken better?
[11:47]  Busy Link: so compulsory
[11:47]  cyber Placebo: are you planning on doing this again despite feedback
[11:47]  Kvasir Olbracht: giggle
[11:48]  Eurominuteman Jameson: ?
[11:48]  Keystone Bouchard: yeah, how will you get past it?
[11:49]  Iota Ultsch: Agreed!!!
[11:50]  Eurominuteman Jameson: do you have a workshop size downsized version
[11:51]  Busy Link: culture = beliefs and assumptions
[11:51]  em Oe: this notion "this is not architecture" is just as prevalent in analog 1st year studies. I teach at IIT in chicago, and we have an incredibly pragmatic program, though 1st year is a non building oriented, but concept, space, material, etc...
[11:51]  Keystone Bouchard: what do you mean by that Eurominuteman? workshop?
[11:51]  Eurominuteman Jameson: like here in the center
[11:51]  Keystone Bouchard: this building?
[11:51]  Eurominuteman Jameson: not island size
[11:51]  Eurominuteman Jameson: yes
[11:51]  JudyArx Scribe: very good point
[11:52]  JudyArx Scribe: yes
[11:52]  Eurominuteman Jameson: for project management here in the center
[11:52]  Keystone Bouchard: no, i don't have one available at smaller size
[11:52]  sedai Kaligawa: i make models of buildings in sl before i build them for vr use
[11:52]  Busy Link: gettiong through the culture value and see the value
[11:52]  Welcome to ArchiTECool owned by Busy Link gave you 'Welcome to ArchiTECool'  ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Architecture%20Island/172/147/21 ).
[11:52]  em Oe: seems that subsequent parts of the curriculum have a responsiblity to mediate the gap between the 1st year work in SL and later years toolset
[11:52]  Busy Link: culture barrier and on the other side is the value
[11:52]  Eurominuteman Jameson: i mean not building, but planning
[11:53]  Iota Ultsch: Unfortunately, in architectural education, there is a perception that pragmatic outcomes should take precedence over lateral thought and experimentation...as opposed to both being an essential synthesis in architectural process
[11:53]  Eurominuteman Jameson: project management is well practiced by architects
[11:54]  Kvasir Olbracht: i am dealing with lateral thinking today so i better not comment
[11:54]  Busy Link: This is the aim of my project - get the learners to walk through their own project
[11:54]  Profesora Farigoule: couldnt agree w/ JudyArx more!!!
[11:55]  sedai Kaligawa: thank you
[11:55]  cyber Placebo: sorrry to get started
[11:55]  cyber Placebo: did you have suppport for head of school to buy the isalnd?
[11:55]  Mystical Demina: do you find it better to learn these concepts in autoCAD or 3DS MAx first, then go to SL, seems those interfaces, although complicated, are better and understanding what you need to do to model something
[11:55]  cyber Placebo: doid you build a business case?
[11:56]  Ahmed Freenote: we had an experience here at berkeley building a virtual museum for the smithsonian. it was a challenge for students, teachers and sponsors.
[11:56]  Profesora Farigoule: we had that experience in our project w/ solar exposure which we will see when we visit it :)
[11:56]  Eurominuteman Jameson: pushing the pedals of a bike is doing, how about holding the handlebars
[11:57]  Iota Ultsch: obviously each design project presents different constraints...and educationally, the methodology employed [or rather imposed by some tutors] leaves little space/time to actually engage SL on a convincing level.
[11:58]  Busy Link: Love quotes :-)
[11:58]  Keystone Bouchard: what kind of challenges did you face Ahmed?
[11:58]  Daffodil Fargis: Thanks lot! Extremely interesting. Bye for now
[11:59]  Gwen Gwasi: whats the resume
[11:59]  Ahmed Freenote: breaking conventions about design and what's the role of a musuem
[11:59]  Eurominuteman Jameson: this architect format is not of use for me
[12:00]  Ahmed Freenote: what does a space mean when u can fly
[12:00]  Iota Ultsch: lol...i recall that time
[12:00]  JudyArx Scribe: lol indeed
[12:00]  Iota Ultsch: people don't like change
[12:00]  Ahmed Freenote: when gravity is not a constrain
[12:01]  Iota Ultsch: try flying in a case study house model in SL
[12:01]  Iota Ultsch: lol
[12:01]  Idesine Habilis: lol
[12:01]  em Oe: and bad simulated architecture
[12:01]  Profesora Farigoule: ouch
[12:01]  Chip Poutine: but what constitutes a solution appropriate to this virtual context when 'anything goes'? can a student be wrong?
[12:02]  Eurominuteman Jameson: who is the peer to this
[12:02]  JudyArx Scribe: yes
[12:02]  Zana Kohime: Absolutely, we can move past what we have in the physical world.
[12:02]  em Oe: there is still context and program
[12:02]  JudyArx Scribe: but the have to defend and debate
[12:02]  JudyArx Scribe: the conversationis so important
[12:02]  Profesora Farigoule: em said it - always a context
[12:03]  em Oe: it just doesnt have to adhere to physical conventions
[12:03]  Alayna Hutson: I apologize, but I do have to get going. Great topics, great discussion--I do wish I could stay.
[12:03]  Keystone Bouchard: the context is more like a liquid here - far less static
[12:03]  Alayna Hutson: Thank you very much everyone
[12:03]  Zana Kohime: Thanks Alayna
[12:04]  Busy Link: Thanks for coming :-)
[12:04]  Tere Short: thanks, moira, and all other collaborators! need to go. enjoyed!
[12:04]  JudyArx Scribe: yes
[12:04]  Frith Rhiadra: Very interesting - not my field but useful to hear some of the issues. Enjoy the rest of the session. Bye.
[12:04]  Chip Poutine: there was some wonderful work at that RMIT project - I blogged about it
[12:04]  Iota Ultsch: yes!
[12:05]  JudyArx Scribe: yes
[12:05]  Profesora Farigoule: here on Arch Island :0
[12:05]  Profesora Farigoule: :)

Taxonomy upgrade extras: